 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Current time: Sun May 26, 2013 7:24 am
All times are GMT |
 |
 |
 |
| Author |
Message |
|
|
|
 Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:52 am Re: A sad day in America.... |
 |
| ONOFFON wrote: | | simon wrote: | | It takes effort to find truth when you are surrounded in lies. |
The truth is there if you look for it. Bush supporters refuse to look at the truth and discount it as propaganda.
It's all in the 'America - right or wrong' philosophy. People just can't come to grips with the possibility that their leader may have made mistakes. He, himself, will not admit to any mistakes.
The reasons for this war change every time he tells it - WMD - then, WMD related programs - then, intent to build WMD - whatever suits his purposes.
The ends justify the means and the deaths...  |
Amerika went to war because Amerika went to war and that's all there is too it.
mistake is putting it mildly. |
|
|
|
| |
   |
|
|
|
|
|
Ace
[Extraterrestrial Ally] |
|
| Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:20 am Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
bit...
i remember times here...(and i was live nearby)... :himan:
the "fall" of berlins wall...80 000 000 happy people...this should be a example :wink2:
still questions...world ??? ... :spliff:
| BitWhys wrote: | | IC-MM Ace wrote: | | it´s hard to believe that 59,000.000 people...voted for WAR !!!!! :anger: |
no its not 
I was just hoping they wouldn't.
mislead by my own wishful thinking again.  |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:49 am Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
hey acers- we remember that ronald reagan took credit for it! 
@ brian- amerika went to war because saddam did the unthinkable-
traded oil for euros. the intuition that the war was about oil is only
partially correct. it's much more about ensuring the supremecy of the
u.s. dollar over the emerging euro as the standard for world oil trade.
great britain hasn't adopted the euro, part of the agreement of the
$16B economic bailout the u.s. gave blair to be a member of the coalition.
k |
|
IOMA award for "best producer" 2004
WWW.CDBABY.COM/ZENPOOL
now available at towerrecordsonline,
itunes (.99 single downloads),
-please do a search |
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
Ace
[Extraterrestrial Ally] |
|
| Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:04 am Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
| Quote: | | hey acers- we remember that ronald reagan took credit for it! |
not only that...gorbatschov too and a lot others...we´re very thankful ... :sun:
and now look ... how germany today stands for... peace :cheers:
soooo in this case all partys come together and talk ... :thankyou:
good for us ... good for the world ... like sayed...as example  |
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:11 am Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
Only O sama can save us now!  |
|
|
|
| |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
| Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:34 am Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
| IC-MM Ace wrote: | bit...
i remember times here...(and i was live nearby)... :himan:
|
Yes I do. I also the remember the courage Poland showed in being a big part of the awakening. It was a long time ago. You probably know the story better than I do but I certainly do catch your meaning.
heh. at least I remembered Poland (inside joke of sorts)
Koolar...
Kirk, there are other countries openly considering the Euro. I do believe Iran is one of them. They should since the USD has nothing supporting it but brute force. |
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:51 pm Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
| kirk wrote: | hiya brian- it's been awhile. that's so "vietnam era". 
you do know about the "smart border"
pact the u.s. and canada made after 911, w/ provisions that
allows for extradition of draft dodgers seeking refuge in canada?
...
k |
hey Kirk. I did a little digging around and managed to pull these sites together...
Canadian Declaration
Action Plan for Creating a Secure and Smart Border
Specifics of Secure and Smart Border Action Plan
my cursory glance at it doesn't reveal anything about extradited draft dodgers or deserters. closest thing I see is "security risk" stuff. that's could very well be what the Ivory Tower is using to tell your lame-ass public stenographer press to pass on to the cattle. unless I'm missing something and if that's what you've heard already then all the more reason to worry since it only means they're already front-running the propoganda.
I'm going to take a closer look and find some people to talk to about it up here. Damned if I'm going to let our Government get hussled without a fight.
hey Steve I checked that link. A WONDRERFUL collection of primary sources. Might take me a while to get to it. Right now I'm just finishing "Into the Buzzsaw" about the current state of the American mass-news-media. I'm also into the first chapter of a book called "Fire and Ice: The United States, Canada and the Myth of Converging Values". It seems bang on right now. Got a couple others to check out later, one called "4,000 Miles of Irritation". the title alone makes it sound right up my alley.
b |
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:18 pm Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
hey brian- thanks for looking. who did the map? 
Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era.
College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.
Even those voters who currently support US actions abroad may still object to this move, knowing their own children or grandchildren will not have a say about whether to fight. Not that it should make a difference, but this plan, among other things, eliminates higher education as a
shelter and includes women in the draft.
the full text is here-(one of many returns on a google
"the military draft smart border"
http://home.nyc.rr.com/cplex/
k |
|
IOMA award for "best producer" 2004
WWW.CDBABY.COM/ZENPOOL
now available at towerrecordsonline,
itunes (.99 single downloads),
-please do a search |
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:50 pm Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
gotcha. but if you check the "specifics" link I left you see this is by no way a done deal. afa I can see its a matter of clearing the border, just like last time. there's no specific agreement about extradition, let alone the identification of who is considered to be a security risk. closest I see to in the agreement is...
| Quote: | 4) Refugee/Asylum Processing
Review refugee/asylum practices and procedures to ensure that applicants are thoroughly screened for security risks and take necessary steps to share information on refugee and asylum claimants.
5) Handling of Refugee/Asylum Claims
Negotiate a safe third-country agreement to enhance the handling of refugee claims.
|
we irritated the hawks to no end last time be announcing an open-arms policy. IMO we bloody well better do it again. and we better have our ducks in a row when the time comes because Harper (canadian neocon opposition leader) is in the American's back pocket just like Mulroney of old.
btw, HR 163 is the one they used for October's dog-and-pony. S 89 is STILL alive and kicking but you might want to also look into H.R. 3598 - 2001. Its the Republican sponsered bill that got buried in sub-committee but I won't be surprised if it serves as the template. Check section 9
| Quote: | SEC. 9. EXEMPTIONS.
(a) ACCEPTED BY ARMED FORCES- No person may be inducted or accepted as a volunteer for basic military training and education unless the person is acceptable to the Secretary concerned for training. The same health and physical qualifications applicable under section 505 of title 10, United States Code, to persons seeking original enlistment in a regular component of the armed forces shall apply to persons to be inducted or accepted under this Act.
(b) OTHER MILITARY SERVICE- No person shall be liable for induction under section 3(a) who--
(1) is serving, or has served honorably for at least six months, in any of the armed forces on active duty; or
(2) is or becomes a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, the United States Naval Academy, the United States Air Force Academy, the Coast Guard Academy, the United States Merchant Marine Academy, a midshipman of a Navy accredited State maritime academy, a member of the Senior Reserve Officers' Training Corps, or the naval aviation college program, so long as he satisfactorily continues in and completes two years training therein.
|
the rich's get out of jail free card
this is far from over |
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:28 pm Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
that's good to know. i'll sure as hell take a stab at it if my
daughter has to go, even if we have to hike across the border!
i'm also very concerned for my son, a cycled-out marine still within
reservist time. his MOS is avionics/computer specialist, a prime target.
we "vacationed" in b.c. 3 months ago. 
k |
|
IOMA award for "best producer" 2004
WWW.CDBABY.COM/ZENPOOL
now available at towerrecordsonline,
itunes (.99 single downloads),
-please do a search |
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:59 pm Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
The true problem in America right now is that we are a nation of self-involved, out-for-ourselves people who don't care what happens in the rest of the world as long as we are living comfortable lives (this viewpoint having been very well represented already in this thread). And the male, straight, and white brigade continues to use conservative Christianity and fear to keep their power, as they have always done.
I went into the service when I was 19 years old to defend my country, despite the very anti-female soldier sentiment in the US military at that time. I still believe in defending my country, and I believe all countries have the right and responsibility to a standing military to do the same. However, I have yet to see my country under attack.
In a world so complex, the US media has reduced the issues to 15 second sound bites and retained a simple-minded, recovering alcoholic who traded the bottle for the bible, school yard bully in power. Not that we had any other reasonable choices--we choose our leaders on looks and the sound of their voice.
What it really boils down to in the US is that no one here any longer knows how to take personal responsibility for their own actions. It's always somebody else's fault. Pour boiling hot coffee into your own lap? Well, sue the restaurant that sold it to you...and win.
That's the US in a nut shell. We're always looking for somebody else to blame.
Jill |
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
Ace
[Extraterrestrial Ally] |
|
| Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:59 am Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
well....same here... "living comfortable lives" ... :lmao:
but from our point of view...americas actions bring us the opposite
defending the own country is everyones right...
but fact is... iraq never attacted your country... :tellya:
bush/america biggest mistake ... too date!!
but i feel it´s hope in sight ... starts with exchange of thoughts....like here :sun:
| jill no jack wrote: | The true problem in America right now is that we are a nation of self-involved, out-for-ourselves people who don't care what happens in the rest of the world as long as we are living comfortable lives (this viewpoint having been very well represented already in this thread). And the male, straight, and white brigade continues to use conservative Christianity and fear to keep their power, as they have always done.
I went into the service when I was 19 years old to defend my country, despite the very anti-female soldier sentiment in the US military at that time. I still believe in defending my country, and I believe all countries have the right and responsibility to a standing military to do the same. However, I have yet to see my country under attack. |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:08 am Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
danke acers! these crazy false christians don't speak for us.
1/2 the voting population hate american policies, and still less than
1/2 the population of over 250,000,000 voted.
"the wheels of the gods grind slowly". as vietnam and nixon begat
the hippie movement, so will the bush cabal cause the pendulum to
swing further in the opposite direction.
a ray of sunshine- perhaps this is the wakeup call, the bucket of cold
water the worldwide peace movement needs to galvanize, demand peace,
and actually be willing to suffer a bit for those ideals.
we have several of the multi-site "artists for peace" members,
including mike, the Q's, philos 60, aquarian age, zenpool...
(sorry if i omitted anyone) and i'm sure we can count on many
others joining in.
we made it to around 60 artists on the original .au AFP,
i'm guessing 20 or so on besonic, a branch on 1sound, a station
at mp3.com..
is everyone ready to roll on ICAFP? 
give us some front page!!
p e a c e war is over (if you want it)
kirk/zenpool |
|
IOMA award for "best producer" 2004
WWW.CDBABY.COM/ZENPOOL
now available at towerrecordsonline,
itunes (.99 single downloads),
-please do a search
| |
|
| |
| artists for peace logo1.jpg | 24.7 KB | Viewed 1902 Time(s) |
| |
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:42 am Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
This is what I heard yesterday. A very rough translation of what famous German philosopher Hegel once said:
"The most dangerous view of the world is the one people have which have never seen the world!"
:nod: :read: :tellya: |
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
Mike Burn
Generally Crazy Guy |
|
| Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:15 pm Re: A sad day in America.... |
|
| Quote: | Saturday, 6 November, 2004, 01:23 GMT
BBC/London
US vote boosts interest in Canada
Canadian immigration officials said the number of US citizens visiting their website went up six-fold the day after the US election.
Their website, which on an average day has some 20,000 hits, was visited by 115,016 on Wednesday, Reuters news agency reported.
The figure dropped on Thursday but was still higher than normal, at 65,803.
There was speculation that Democrats fed up with George W Bush's win were thinking of moving over the border.
The idea of disgruntled Americans wishing to emigrate north across the border has amused Canadians.
One commentator, Thane Burnett, wrote a tongue-in-cheek guide to possible new citizens.
"As Canadians, you'll have to learn to embrace and use all the products and cultures of Americans, while bad-mouthing their way of life," he wrote in the Ottawa Sun newspaper.
"Legions of Canadians have already pledged to sacrifice their singlehood to save their southern neighbours from four more years of cowboy conservatism." |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
 |
Canada
Europe
Vatican City
USA
Germany
